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Message thread at CPP
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***Clicker Club***LaraArcher wrote: >>The horse I'm training knows if she wants to she can get me off her back, and she has. If this is too serious for you to help me with it it's fine, she may need some more serious training than I can give her. <<
Lara, what exactly does she do? Does she buck? Lie down and roll? Scrape you against things?
The first and most important thing you must do is keep yourself safe. If your horse is bucking you off or otherwise putting you in danger, then I would say you do need some professional help with her. Talk with your parents so you can make a decision together about where to go.
If you and your parents determine that you can keep working without a trainer, then you need to carefully inspect the fit of all her tack. Is something pinching her? Does she have any pain or discomfort ANYwhere? This is something it is difficult for us to know, so you and your parents need to work on this together.
Then you need to see if you can analyze what is happening. Before your horse bucks/scrapes/etc. what, if any, signals does she give? If you can determine that, then perhaps when you see the warning signs you can direct her to do something else to catch her interest and deter her from bucking.
Before we talk any more about this, please let us know what she is doing, and what you and your parents decide when you talk about it. Then we'll continue. And remember that this list cannot take the place of a knowledgeable professional who is actually there in person.
In the meantime, do continue your groundwork, stay safe, and see if you can hone your powers of observation. They will stand you in good stead! | 
EagleGirl & Deerslayer | | 2014-04-01 22:34:15 | | | Thanks for making the Clicker invitation, POA! I have sent one to all my pals! |
EagleGirl & Deerslayer | | 2014-04-01 22:56:21 | | Thanks EagleGirl! My parents want me to be safe so we're thinking about giving Annie back to the lady who owned her previously for some more serious training. I'm just going to tell you what I do and what her reaction is. First I after I saddle her I put my foot in the stirrup and get her used to me putting pressure own her. It aggravates her at first then eventually she gives in and I ease into the saddle with no movement from her. I then try to walk her, usually she'll go at least a little then she'll stop. So I might show her the whip on the back of the saddle or pressure her with my legs and she'll walk forward again. If she stops again I might would put pressure on her sides with my legs again. This is when she might raise her head, lay back her ears, swish her tail, and stomp her feet. If she does all of these things while walking I know she's about to rear or do a funny looking rocking motion but more extreme. This of course you would say is a form of balking, it is.
I've actually only been thrown once, but it wasn't by bucking. She reared several times and I slid of the back landing on my feet, luckily I wasn't injured considering I did slide off right behind her and I was worried about getting kicked in the stomach or worse in the chest or head. Fortunately Annie is not an aggressive horse at all and usually is laid back and willing to do what I want her to, she just doesn't want anybody on her back. Anyway It's when I want her to do what I want to do, which of course is what she doesn't want to do. Push her and she'll throw more then just a fit. | 
LaraArcher & Chief | | 2014-04-02 01:37:59 | | Hi Lara,
It sounds to me as though you are very observant, and can tell that Annie is not pleased with what is happening to her. From your description, it seems that she is giving clear signals from the time you put your foot in the stirrup. When you ignore those signals, she gives you more. When you keep ignoring them, she eventually becomes upset and takes steps to make sure you "listen". So I think you need to back up and work with her in a place that she is comfortable with, and that means on the ground.
Please remember that the advice you get on this list is not a substitute for the counsel and services of a professional trainer. But if you and your parents are in agreement that you may continue to work with her, I do have some suggestions.
If Annie is exhibiting anxiety or ire over the saddle and bridle, then you need to start there. Check the fit very carefully. Check her over too, to make sure she doesn't have any sore spots where the tack would touch her. Since you did not mention anything about these things, I am assuming that she has no problems with either one. If that is the case, we can begin working on mounting after we address a few other things. If that is not the case, those things need to be addressed before any work is done on mounting and riding.
First of all, because Annie has not been completely cooperative, unless you are doing only groundwork, with your parents' permission, I suggest you only work with her when one or both of your parents can be present. And don't forget to always wear a helmet, even if you are not going to get on her. So, once those criteria have been met, we can move on.
Is Annie familiar with the clicker? If not, regardless of what else we work on, the first thing you have to do is teach her that the clicker is a good thing. This is called "charging the clicker". You can go back in the Clicker Club and read all about this, but I will go over it here too.
Basically you take some treats in your pocket/pouch/apron/vest/etc. and loop the clicker over your left wrist. While Annie is completely relaxed and you are not working on anything else, you walk up to her, pet and talk to her, then click. Immediately take a treat out of your pocket and give it to her. Click again, pull out a treat, and continue for several C/Ts. Some horses catch on immediately, others take more time. Do this at least five times, more if you think she's almost got it, then pet her some more. Repeat the next day, or even several hours later. Take your time, and do as many sessions as Annie needs to understand that when she hears the click a treat is forthcoming. Observe her, and she will tell you when she has "got it".
Once she understands what the click means, you can move on to using the clicker to teach her things. Pick something very simple for her to do. Many trainers begin with targeting. Take something to use for a target - a paper towel roll, a traffic cone, a coiled rope, a dog toy, anything she can reach out and touch with her muzzle, even your fist will work - and show it to her. Don't hold it too far away or too close, about six to eight inches ought to be fine for a first attempt. Ask her to "touch it" and give her a chance to reach towards it. Click for ANY forward movement of her muzzle. Then treat. Then do it again. After a few times you will wait a little longer before clicking, expecting her to reach even closer to it with her muzzle. Then C/T. Do you see what I mean by working in tiny increments? Eventually she will touch it. When she does that, click, and give her a "jackpot" - several treats so that she can tell she did something really special.
Once she is touching the target, vary things. Move the target to her left and ask her to touch it. Move it to the right, up, down, towards her shoulder (but where she can clearly see it) so she has to turn her head to touch it. When she is doing this comfortably, hold it far enough in front of her that she has to really stretch to reach it. Then move it even farther away so she has to take a step to reach it. Remember, the entire time you are doing this you are watching for ANY indication that she is increasing her effort. As soon as you see "more" from her, C/T. Take your time, and let the both of you enjoy the process.
If Annie is inclined to work with you at liberty, I strongly suggest this is how you work with her during this stage. When she is at liberty, she will be working because she WANTS to, and that is vitally important. If you can work in a corral that is great, because she is confined to a small area, but at the same time she is free to move away from you if she wants.
If she tires and walks off, that is okay. You may have very short sessions right at first. When I first began with my "rescue" mule, we didn't last five minutes. That being said, if she walks off, do see if you can engage her again so that you can end with a success. As you continue working with her, you will learn to spot the signs that she is tiring, getting bored or anxious, and you will be able to end the session before she can.
If she doesn't work at liberty, then go ahead and halter her. You can hold the halter in your hand so you can move around a bit, or if she is antsy you can tie her loosely to a tree or post. Remember to only tie her to something that is very solid and sturdy, not to something that could be easily moved, such as the fence.
Give these things a try and help Annie learn how the clicker works and what it means. Then let me know how she is doing once you try the targeting. Once that is going well, we can move on, and will eventually get to mounting. In the meantime, please stay safe, and if you don't have to ride her then don't. Just spend lots of time getting to know each other better. You will be amazed at the bond that develops from the time you will spend together on the ground, working with the clicker and learning to observe and respond to each other. This bond will stand you in good stead when you start working with things that Annie does not feel comfortable with. |
EagleGirl & Deerslayer | | 2014-04-03 02:12:36 | | | Good info. I have done most of the things you suggested. :) | 
Horses1201 & Firefly | | 2014-04-03 20:17:30 | | | Thank you so much, EagleGirl! |
LaraArcher & Chief | | 2014-04-03 20:23:15 | | | Opps, that's not too clear. Like, before you posted the info. I used some of it o my pets. :) |
Horses1201 & Firefly | | 2014-04-05 04:22:14 | | | You are very welcome Lara. Please keep us updated on what and how you are doing. And stay safe! |
EagleGirl & Deerslayer | | 2014-04-05 04:22:14 | | | I'm on vacation now, so it might be a while before I can work with her. |
LaraArcher & Chief | | 2014-04-06 00:54:43 | | HELP!!!
Sasha keeps digging holes like crazy while I'm at school! I came home one day and she had almost tunneled her way out of the kennel by digging a tunnel under her 'house'. What can I do? I'm at school, so I can't exercise her. I always give her tons of exercise both physically and mentally every day. |
rainstar13 & Nightfire | | 2014-04-07 21:21:57 | |
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